3 hours ago · · · Share
- A:Oy! Tina. Really?
I have to disagree with you. If you want to find fault in the overt hypersexuality of today's generation, you can point fingers at the advertisers, the porn industry, even the xenoestrogens, but women are only trying to keep up.
While I personally am quite modest, and personally was friends with my husband for 10 years prior to dating, I know that isn't the case for most. I know that I'm an anomaly, but that doesn't mean that all my friends' marriages are destined to fail because they slept together on the first date. Part of my femininity is, in fact, my feminism. I don't think that my husband would respect me very much if I were the type of woman to cow-tow to his every whim.
And even though putting on a bit of makeup in the afternoon doesn't take much time, I do it for *me*. Nobody else.
I think that part of the 'fall of society' has much to do with an educational system that fails children, violence/sexuality in media, and yes... two parent households that are forced to work.
Then again, if our government implemented socialized health care, it would be much more affordable for one parent to stay at home with the children, and frankly, I don't care which gender that is. In fact, I look forward to returning to work while Jeff stays home and goes to school. Perhaps then, he'd see how difficult of a job that really is.2 hours ago · - A: And Dr. (and I use that term VERY loosely) Laura is not your best source of information. She actually believes in conversion camps. You know, gay man walks in... prays... walks out straight. Even if homosexuality weren't genetic (and perhaps these endocrine disruptors are partially to blame) religion isn't the answer.2 hours ago ·
- L: Why should two-parent households that are forced to work be considered part of the "fall of society"? I know quite a few households in which both parents worked that were quite happy and successful. And I've known households where only the husband worked in which the child was a delinquent as often as not.2 hours ago ·
- Me: You can disagree with her beliefs on many things as you will disagree with me in many of my beliefs, but just because you do not agree with one or many of her beliefs does not mean she is wrong in all of her beliefs. I believe in her points in this book, whole heartedly. I think feminism is a huge part in the downfall of our society. It gave women something to hide behind so that they no longer have to answer for their crimes or their shortcomings as women, mothers, wives. We don't have to take responsibility anymore for our part, we can just blame the men.
Anyone who knows me, knows I am not one to be overrun by anyone, man or woman. I do not mention cow-towing in any of what I wrote, and neither does she. She and I agree on the fact that many women now take without thinking they need to give back. Why should they? Everything around them tells them they are entitled. It is not being dominated or controlled or put in your "place", to show your husband kindness, love, compassion, and respect. That is both her point and mine.
Too many women get to say, "I won't be held down by a man!" Or "I don't have to be his slave!" When in fact, that is most likely not what your man is looking for. He is looking for a companion, not a Mommy or a Manager. He has both of those already.
I agree that media does play a part in spreading the insanity, but it it NOT the cause. Without us giving them fuel for their fire, they'd have nothing to advertise. Role models and education starts first and foremost at home. We are the first women/men our kids look at for a leading example. We are our children's first and last teachers. You can not simply point a finger at everyone else and not hold yourself responsible as well.2 hours ago · - A: The statistics suggest more than anecdotal evidence. Single parent households suffer from double the risk of child abuse, 30% higher alcohol/drug abuse, and that family structure significantly predicts delinquency.
Latchkey kids are much more likely to have tragic accidents, early teenage sex, and lower grades.2 hours ago · - Me: The fall of society holds many factors, I was merely pointing out one of them....the role that women played in it. I do believe that a lot of children do suffer from having their parents both working, but so do children who have stressed out parents (Mommy or Daddy), that stay home everyday. Once again, it can come back to the fact that we as a society do not appreciate what we have anymore. And since mostly women stay at home to raise their children-still, that once again falls mostly on the mother's. If you do not appreciate the fact that you get to stay at home, you can easily become resentful and stress easily. This shows to your kids. They notice. That can't be good for their self esteem.
And yes, I do believe that the way women act today plays a HUGE role in how our kids act as well. If Mommy has no self respect and shows no self restraint, why should her daughter? If Daddy is going around sleeping with any woman he can get naked, why shouldn't his son do the same? It starts at home. The hypersexuality began when women felt that they had been freed from their chains of being just a woman. It started with the sexual revolution. It had very little to do with the media. The media picked up their lead and ran with it. That's like saying since I watch a lot of crime dramas that I am going to become a cop or a criminal. Not everything can be blamed on tv...we have to take responsibility for our own thoughts and actions.
Putting on make up is not just for you, ask Jeff. LOL...You may think it's just for you, but I bet he appreciates the effort and then it becomes for him too. You can do things that make you feel good while still having your husband in mind too. That isn't a weakness.
If women believe they need to keep up with the things the media portrays, that isn't the medias fault...it is the womans fault for buying into it. Women need to learn to be happy with who and what they are without seeking the approval of anyone other than themselves and their spouses. They can't say, "My butt is hanging out because that model the other night on that show had her butt hanging out, I just want to be like her." Have some self respect and dignity.about an hour ago · - A: Just one point to address, and then I have to go finish dinner...
Media is not the cause, but women aren't either. In the late 70's and early 80's we suffered from an economic recession that forced women into the workplace. Feminism might have had roots in the 60's, but the reality is, poverty requires dual income families.
Women started to feel as though they were losing their sexuality due to joining the work force. Anthems such as "bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan, and never let him forget that he's the man" (I'm paraphrasing) suggested to women that they could, in fact, have it all and no negative implications whatsoever..
I'll be back.about an hour ago · - Me: I don't buy into studies at all! Studies also show that this will happen if you do or do not do this, and this will not happen if you do or don't do this...then in five years the study is done again and changes everything. I believe in what I see and feel around me.about an hour ago ·
- Me: Women going to work is not an excuse for how things have become today. I understand women had to go to work to help out...we still do in most families. Working, as far as I know, does NOT make you lose your sexuality...you giving up on yourself makes you lose your sexuality. I know many women who work full time jobs and still feel sexy and are still very sexual.
Women can have it all. Lots of women do. That is not my point here. My point here is that while having it all, don't forget to cherish your man and give him as much as you ask for. There is nothing wrong with that. That doesn't make you less of an equal, it actually makes you more of one.
The negative implications come from feeling like you can have it all, you take it all and you do not feel the need to give anything back.
If you expect him to keep himself up to par, work and be a husband and father, you should do the same. (Even if you are working in the home). If he is expected to look good and be in a good mood when around you, you should be held to the same standard. Again, nothing wrong there.
If you are saying, "My husband is an awful husband all the time!", and you are complaining and nagging 24/7, and then you turn around and say "He isn't very attentive or loving and I hate that about him!", you are sadly misleading yourself. You are not trying to be an equal, you are trying to take it all for yourself and not have to put forth the effort or energy into giving him anything back.
It has nothing to do with women being held down.
And shucking all responsibility by throwing it on everyone else, doesn't help anyone. We are already overrun by people who can't stand up and accept the consequences of their own actions. It's gotten us nowhere good.about an hour ago ·
- A: It is not expected that you would continue the same standards after the 'honeymoon' phase is over.
From a physiological standpoint, during initial courting, your brain is flooded with hormones (testosterone and estrogen) and neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, and adrenaline). Not to mention, your body starts secreting oxytocin (the bonding hormone) in large quantities.
Why does our brain do all this? Simple biology. We, after all, are still animals.
After 'mating' our brain does not function in the same way. We settle down, create a life based on commonalities, behavior, and personality. All the makeup in the world won't save a relationship if it's based on anything other that mutual respect.about an hour ago · - A: I meant 'than' in the last sentence.about an hour ago ·
- Me: Which standards would we not continue with exactly? I didn't say make up was to be used to save a relationship, I used it as an example to show that we stop caring about looking nice once the dating period has become the married period.about an hour ago ·
- P: Hmmm.... I do see your point on all of this but I look at it a wee bit different. We are in the middle of an evolving situation. It wasn't to many years ago that wives were treated the same as the children in the home. You follow and obey or you get slapped around a bit and you had better get it right next time. It wasn't to long ago that women were not allowed to vote, work, to have a voice in the family structure. Our only purpose was to please our man and take care of the home and children.
Over the last few generations women have come along way but we are still being raised with alot of that abuse mentallity and our mothers don't even realize it. And then you have the other side of women who you would mistake for a man other than the fact they have boobs because they are trying to rebel against everything that has ever been taught to them. The fact is this, we're ivolving in this still. It's the same as taking a 10 year old whos never had candy into the candy store and tell them to have at it. They are going to go after the candies they were told not to touch the most 1st and then go down the line till they are so sick they can't stand it. We're still in that process, I know our
generation probably had more free hoes in it simply because we realized we could have just as much sex as any man and we weren't looked at in the worst light ever by our peers. But I see my sister whos 18 and she's not sleeping with every guy in sight. Her school didn't have half of the girls pregnant like ours did growing up. I feel already the hype of free sexuality is dying down and when our children become adults our girls will be more lady like and possibly being a virgin at marriage won't be as much as a joke as it is today.
Okay, now on to the married/family life. As far as getting dressed up for my hubby... I wore pj pants, a t shirt, and a pony tail on our 1st date. I wanted him to know what he was getting himself into, and lucky for me he still asked me out for a 2nd date. I am the worst to stay in my pjs all day and not even brush my hair. But he loves me still the same. He doesn't look at me and see the make up or fixed up hair he looks at me and sees me and that's the beauty he loves. I'm not saying that women shouldn't look nice for thier husbands from time to time just to wow them. But everyday, no. Craig would appreciate me not wasting the money on all make up just so he can look at me in it. LOL
As far as clothing goes.... this is a big one to me. I say 1) dress your age 2) Dress your status 3) Never ever ever dress like a slut! There is a HUGE difference between sexy and slutty. HUGE HUGE HUGE and that is one thing so many women don't understand. Men like playboy because it's slutty, not because it's sexy. So don't dress like that on your Friday night diner and expect him to think you're being sexy. Find out what your man likes, pay attention to what he says when you're putting on clothes. Or pay attention to the other women in his life that he respects. Your man may think a Sunday's best dress is the most sexy thing in the world and you have no clue.
That brings me to my conclusion.... I don't think that we as women need to look at all the women who went before us to figure out how to be a modest lady. Simply because they will tell you to grin and bare it. Keep the appearance up that you're in a happy loving home, make sure you obey your husband. Blah, blah, blah. So many of us look at divorce rates from 30 years ago and think since it was so low the men and women must have been doing it right and now since it's so high we're all doing it wrong. Not true because alot of the 50% of divorces today are those women who've been married for 40 years who are just now realizing they don't have to live that way for the rest of their lives. Rather, I think we have to work as a family unit with our spouses and figure out what our personal spouse wants, needs, desires. If we are willing to do that single thing and are willing to put the "me" to the side and start thinking as "we" things will turn around.
Before I was married there were so many things that I swore I would never do for my husband that my mom had done for my dad. But then I married Craig and in so many ways I became just like her. I was doing things for him that I swore no man would ever "make" me do and I was enjoying it. But it was demanded of me, it wasn't expected from me, it was me loving my husband and me making him the man that he is. In my home Craig is the head of our household. I have submitted myself to him but HE has done his part as a man to make me know that I am his partner not his foot stool and he's never made me feel below him. Even though I do respect his postition in our home he has never "pulled rank" he has always made me an equal but it's because I allow him to be a man. I don't belittle him or abuse him. If we as women would just take the time to realize we are women, we're built different than men but that's what makes us fit together if only we would take the time to figure our men and our selves out. Stop looking at others and start looking to our spouse.
Okay, I think I'm done. LOL43 minutes ago · - Me:P, you just reiterated MY point. Thank you. You actually brought tears to my eyes. Someone who understands where I'M coming from!!
First, I in no way support the abuse of yesteryears. I do support the family unit as it was, a united front. I also believe that the man should be allowed to be the man, the head of household...that does NOT mean he is to be my boss, or to make me feel less than him. That is NOT what I am saying in any of this. I am simply saying that we are partners in this thing called marriage/family. But he is our provider and our protector, it is only right that I show him how much I respect him by stepping back and allowing him to be that. He is the head of our family, while we make decisions together, the ultimate decision rests on him.
I do look to the women before me, to see their mistakes and learn from them and to see their strong points and learn them.
I do not agree that just because we were "Set loose" that we should just accept that it's the times and turn a blind eye. I don't believe in excusing bad behavior by adults. I believe in holding them accountable. Just because you can have all the sex in the world with whomever you want and you might not be called a slut to your face anymore, doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean I will not hold you responsible for your daughter doing the same thing later.
As far as the make up thing goes, this seems to be hitting home with everyone tonight, lol...I only wanted to use that as an example of caring enough to show the effort to look nice for your husband. It shows that you thought of him and took the time to make yourself up to feel good about yourself and to let him know you were thinking of doing something special for him. I do not mean to make sure you are in a dress, heels, hair done and make up on each night when he walks through the door. Johnnie tells me I am beautiful when I am at my worst...nose running, red eyes, hair disheveled, and my pjs on. LOL...but I know he also appreciates the effort I put forth in looking nice for him every now and then. It shows him I was thinking of him and that I do care about looking good for him. It's just ONE of the MANY things that shows him that I care about his opinion of me or just about him, period.
Now, for the comment about us only being there to take care of the husband and the children...I think that is the opposite extreme of what we have now. Women want kids and they have these babies only to then neglect them and their needs, to resent them and all they do is complain about what they have to do for the kids. They get married only to complain about having to be a wife. You can't have it both ways. I do not believe that we should put ourselves in the role of the 1930s house wife. We have evolved since then, just not always for the best. Most importantly, most men have overcome this way of thinking too. All they want is to be considered and counted. Being a wife to your husband doesn't mean you are putting yourself in a subservient role.
You don't have to let him beat you in order to be his wife and put his feelings up there with your own.
Johnnie has never hit me, made me feel like I was beneath him or not as good as him. He has, however, asked that I hold up to my responsibilities as I expect him to hold up to his, and he is NOT wrong in doing so. I was wrong for expecting him to go to work and come home to do all of my chores as well. Who did I think I was?! Queen Sheba? He is happy to help me, but he shouldn't have to do it all and work too.
I also realized today, Johnnie has never belittled me, gotten angry with me in public, talked down to me, or made me uncomfortable in anyway. I appreciate that SO MUCH! I see men who grit their teeth at their girlfriends in waiting rooms and grocery stores, who grab them by the arm to get their attention and let them know they are angry with them, I see men who will openly talk down to their women in public and you know it's just worse at home. Johnnie would NEVER even think about doing this to me. I am so grateful.
I have not always been so gracious to him, unfortunately. I am learning still. And I hope I have done better in not embarrassing him. He deserves to be able to say the same about me that I am able to say about him
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Oh, I just realized I missed something from A's first post. I want to address this one.
ReplyDeleteI stated that men are more likely to hang around and marry the women who do not throw themselves at them or are easily available to them in a sexual way. In other words, men tend to go more toward the girls who show some respect for themselves by holding out at least a little bit.
With that said, there are always the exceptions to the rule. Johnnie and I slept together on the first date. He moved in 2 days later. We were engaged 3 months later and married 5 months after that. Although Johnnie and I have been married for 8 years, with many breaks in between, most under a week, we are the exception.
There are men who do stay around, but they are not as common as the ones who leave to look for something better than the girl who is super willing.
I have been told by many men that while they will in fact have fun with these women, they do not trust them to be faithful to only them when they are so easily giving of themselves.
I also have personal experience with this situation...unfortunately. I wish I had listened to older, wiser women when I was a teenager.
Johnnie and I have been around each other in one way or another, without knowing it, since we were kids. We could easily have met as teens because of the crowds we hung around with. Our paths often crossed or could have crossed but we were not aware of each other until we actually met.
I believe there was a reason for this. I believe that had we met before I had begun to gain some self respect, Johnnie would not have found me very appealing as a partner. He doesn't like girls who are slutty. I was slutty. I thought that's what they wanted. It never occurred to me that's why no one stayed. I was just a good time for a short while. Not worthy of being a long lasting relationship.
Thank God Johnnie and I met when we did.